Trusting your broker

I'm trying to work out how the broker makes his money. Presumably it's in his interest for you to lose, thereby keeping your money. So why would a broker feed you a high percentage of good quality signals when he will be paying out 60-80% or more..or does the broker simply do the trade for you without any recommendation or advice. In which case - how does he make his money?

Comments

  • lotzofbotzlotzofbotz Posts: 1,552 ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2015
    Its a simple formula X % input Y % output. Ideal condition would be if customer X deposited $1000 on average to pay customer Y payout $500 on average over Z = Time. Now the reality is most people can't trade and even if the balance of orders are matched 1 to 1 per trade the loss is 100% to say 96% vs the payout which is as you state 60-80% or whatever variation there in of to give the spread value of matched trades. Of course that is never the case so in reality most brokers skew the numbers through what means? Well if you are a bucketshop you do it through ROGUE TRADERS that work for you which all they have to do is make trades as the natural numbers payout 60-80% vs loss 95-100% @ 1 to 1/50% = the difference. This is where you see the most complaints and why brokers call often to trade for you repeatedly as they know its just about the numbers where the more you trade the more they make. Also knowing this basic formula another method is to use BONUS TRAPS which a newbie will deposit of say $1k and be given another 50-100% or even more which then the total sum say $1,500-$2,000 needs to be traded 30x-50x both the deposit and bonus = $45,000 to $60,000 @ 30x to $75,000 to $100,000 @ 50x again 1 to 1/50% = the difference. So as the newbie trader is trapped and will trade the averages 100 trades 50/50 the exponential effects of the loss value vs payout value destroys their account balance because they have no positive expectancy to their trading to start with. Outside of that the broker is just playing a waiting game with most traders that they will on average lose more then they make period with the simple loss value vs payout value. The problem comes when a trader called "X or eXponential" comes into the picture that understands the balance of positive expectancy and compounding. = BROKER FREAKOUT! this trader holds above the breakeven point in the mid to high 50% range and compounds his profits thus overcoming the negative effects of the spread and often doing so at inflated values over time. Example using simple geometric progression with 2-5% leverage compounded per trade on a trader above 70% weekly with 20-40 trades per week averaged out over time. This is where the broker applies dirty tricks and will kick you out/play with spread/manipulate prices or say you are exploiting a loophole in their systems = cheating ect ect to prevent the negative ratio payout.

    Account Balance of Mr. Postive eXpectency/eXponential

    $1,000 Start
    $2,000 Week 1-2
    $4,000 Week 2-4
    $8,000 Week 4-6
    $16,000 Week 6-8
    $32,000 Week 8-10
    $64,000 Week 10-12
    $128,000 Week 12-14
    $512,000 Week 14-16
    $1,024,000 Week 16-18

    Its like when you go to that Taco Bell down the street from where you live it costs them on average £less then 1/4th of a pound in total sum to which they charge you 3x as much to which all they need from there all they need is Profit/Customer vs Cost/TIME... "All was dumbed down to explain in a more nominal way on the mean average per user." BTW TACO BELL ROCKS!!!
  • lotzofbotzlotzofbotz Posts: 1,552 ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2015
    Example of a bucketshop broker like "Goptions" playing dirty tricks, was just a matter of time. What they are doing here is finding the time when traders are most likely profitable such as the live trading sessions of "Options Domination" and closing them out = "Opps trading not available..."

    image
  • ds.trading70ds.trading70 Posts: 59
    Hi Guys,

    I am new to BO as well, just 2 months in and I really need to know the truth. So regardless if it's a really genuine broker like Cherry Trade or even 24Options, we are Not To Trust any brokers that they will definitely help us earn and profit? I am on Cherry Trade right now, and I have to say brokers are behaving like really arrogant big shots with no respect. They are impatient, will not return emails (and even if they do, if will be very short and most questions does not get answered). If you don't have an account of at least 6-8k, it seems like they can't really be bothered with you. Hence can someone advice are we to trust any brokers? (if they are from Cherry Trade, 24Options, Marketsworld), or are we really best off just trading on our own? I asked Cherry Trade 3 times if they earn if we lose, They keep insisting that Cherry Trade and the brokers will only earn and profit if we, as the trader, wins the trade. They say if I lose the trade, they don't earn anything at all. Who can I trust? Advice anyone?
  • lotzofbotzlotzofbotz Posts: 1,552 ✭✭✭✭
    Cherry Trade is part of the Trade Rush group which have a horrible reputation in the business. I would stay far away from them period. All Binary Brokers benefit when you lose. If anybody tells you different they are liars or a broker which would make them not only a liar but pathological as well. They will try to convince you that they match orders or are an exchange but again all lies. Their only goal is to get you to deposit as much as you can as fast as possible hence why they will call so much. Markets World is your best bet. Beyond that you would need to find a well capitalized broker like 24Option as they can afford to some traders being profitable and generally won't give you to many issues. On the other hand if you make money with a broker like BDB also well capitalized they would give you an issue mainly because of their corrupt management. You really have very limited choices out there. Search the forums over and over again you can see the ones that will pay vs the ones that you will have issues with. Never take a bonus or any kind of free trades along with signing up to any of their signals/bots as they will use them to empty your account.
  • lotzofbotzlotzofbotz Posts: 1,552 ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2015
    Simple answer is do alot of research into where ever you wish to put money. Choose brokers that have very good reputations and do not show up with tons of complaints. I don't know how anybody would put money in any of these cheesy a$$ brokers from Israel that have horrible posts/videos and stories about them all over the net. Also don't put your full bankroll in a broker unless its small. Example if you are trading with 2k or 20k how much would you put in the broker? I myself would put in 10-20% with my average trade size ranging between 1-5% a trade. Why because I am trading to make money and my bank mostly stays in the BANK. I also withdraw every week or so my profits as I consistently make them and make sure to keep my bankroll GROWING as my #1 GOAL. If a broker gives you issues with withdrawals find out early not after you make alot of money and then decide to withdraw a large sum which freaks your broker out because you put in 2k and are asking for 10-20k instead of taking out 1-2k a week or 2 later instead. Pluck a cat don't skin it or else it will likely want to BITE YOU! Always seek to limit your exposure first as you can always redeposit if need be. Brokers will tell you the opposite but they will also tell you to use their signals too lol.. Both are bad ideas designed for you to lose your money. Trading is not gambling but gamblers love to trade...
  • ds.trading70ds.trading70 Posts: 59
    Hi lotzofbotz, great effort in your post there. I am researching a lot with common sense, and I wish to share whatever I can find. CTOption state that they are a STP (Straight Through Process) Provider, meaning they are basically just earning on volume. They don't care if I win or lose, hence they are neutral. You mentioned MarketsWorld and 24Options which I know they are great. I think the 3rd best would be StockPair. They seem to be pretty reputable as well. I would like to comment on 1 new player in the market - TradingToolKit. The person behind this has some sort of Pedigree Degree with OptionXE and the brokers that he recommend are pretty odd - His Top 4 recommended brokers are Interactive Option, 500 Option, Cherry Trade and OptionRally. Odd no? He seems to be a trusted icon in the world of binary options, but the brokers he is going with, i don't know.
  • Agree with you Lotzofbotz...WITHDRAWAL is the key for Binary Options trading (when and if you are ITM).

    On most broker pages it is very hard to find how to withdraw funds - they deliberately hide it! With many of the brokers I have dealt with, withdrawal is problematic. I have always got my money [eventually] after many reminders and of course they take so long to do a credit card deposit.

    Now over at the somewhat more mature forex trading market I notice some brokers offer their own branded debit card and withdrawal is a direct transfer on the brokers site - maybe in USD or EURO. For me sitting in Australia with the immanent downward slide in the AUD this is a good mechanism. Bee Options is the only Binary broker I can find that is offering some for of card for withdrawals, but vague info about it on their site.

    Hopefully as the Binary Broker market matures (will it ever?) the most respected brokers may be able to offer their own branded debit cards to make the withdrawal process fast and transparent.
  • lotzofbotzlotzofbotz Posts: 1,552 ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2015
    Whoever he is they can't be that trusted if they are promoting some of the worst scam brokers like OptionRally,Interactive Option, Cherry trade and that other who the phuck cares broker 500 lol... All of them are Israel undercapitalized scam/bucket shops period. BeeOptions is meh imo. The debit card idea is smart but only if they pay lol... Again most of these are Israeli spot option based brands = higher risk not worth it imo... CTOption is a bin broker they can't have STP because they don't process anything lol... STP is for actual order like in the spot market so yes they are full of sh*t...

    image
  • lotzofbotzlotzofbotz Posts: 1,552 ✭✭✭✭
    Oh hell no.. Trade Rush is a group of Israeli based scammers imo. I just like their name too bad they destroyed their reputation with bad business practices. Their new brand is Cherry Trade fyi... Same practices different name lol..
  • ds.trading70ds.trading70 Posts: 59
    Hold on, are you referring to Cherry Trade here? If you deposit with Cherry Trade, you would get special access to Signal Rush? I have an account with Cherry Trade, but they never mention such to me. What is Signal Rush anyway?
  • lotzofbotzlotzofbotz Posts: 1,552 ✭✭✭✭
    LoL they have ZERO to do with "Signal Rush" other then the fact since they are a spot option white label you could use the auto-trade copier software on your broker account there. "Signal Rush" is an auto trade copier platform for binary options that allows traders to copy signals from signal providers to clients. Example I have people connected to my signal stream that get the trades I make in their accounts.
  • rivenjrivenj Posts: 3
    Cherry trade is a scam
    Stay away.
    There are good brokers besides markets world even bettter but if you are a US citiizen they wont let you trade with them.
  • ds.trading70ds.trading70 Posts: 59
    Who are the other good brokers then beside Markets World n 24Options then? I m not from US hence my choices are not limited.
  • BryanMacBryanMac Posts: 851 ✭✭✭
    Bryan Mcafee
    Hit me up on skype at Brymcafee (McAllen TX)
    www.tradingaxis.com
  • JonHaltoJonHalto Posts: 27

    LoL they have ZERO to do with "Signal Rush" other then the fact since they are a spot option white label you could use the auto-trade copier software on your broker account there. "Signal Rush" is an auto trade copier platform for binary options that allows traders to copy signals from signal providers to clients. Example I have people connected to my signal stream that get the trades I make in their accounts.

    Lotzofbotz, is there a way i can receive your trades, too? Do you teach also? I have watched you in the live chat sometimes but usually thats when i am working...
  • lotzofbotzlotzofbotz Posts: 1,552 ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2015
    Its coming 100% auto-trade copier and live screen sharing/teaching. Can't do anything about the hours though as I mostly trade the european/us mix. I will even have 1 to 1 sessions to help people build game plans to become better traders along with systems and indicators that suit them so they might learn to be a good trader. Its alot of work to commit to such a thing and most will just want to use me for making money on the auto-trade side but hey maybe some will hang out with me and learn to be boring, because real trading is phucking dull! I apologize if you ever had to watch me trade but I do hope you enjoyed it or learned a thing or two Jon.
  • ds.trading70ds.trading70 Posts: 59
    Hi lotzofbotz, "100% auto-trade copier"? ok i am a bit confused. I don't have the luxury of joining your trading room yet due to timezone difference and work commitment, but I thought it's a pure manual trading room, where people can view the trades done and manually copy the trade E.g. like Night Owl Signals. BinaryOptions.Net has a Auto-Trade Copier like SignalPush?
  • ds.trading70ds.trading70 Posts: 59
    BryanMac said:
    Hi Bryan,

    Thanks for the heads up, quite rare to see you posting here but good to see u around. Just a question, if say a person wish to use a broker for heavier trading. E.g. maybe 20k Deposit and he profits 25% every month; hence 6k withdrawal/month. You think any broker is safe and compliant for such?
  • lotzofbotzlotzofbotz Posts: 1,552 ✭✭✭✭
    Depends on the broker if its Markets World 24Option Stockpair ect ect I don't think you will have any problem at all. Just those undercapitalized no name and mostly spotoption brokers are the ones that the majority of the complaints are about. My dog even could buy a white label spotoption brand they are so cheap.

    image
  • BryanMacBryanMac Posts: 851 ✭✭✭

    BryanMac said:
    Hi Bryan,

    Thanks for the heads up, quite rare to see you posting here but good to see u around. Just a question, if say a person wish to use a broker for heavier trading. E.g. maybe 20k Deposit and he profits 25% every month; hence 6k withdrawal/month. You think any broker is safe and compliant for such?
    I would spread it around to several brokers and maybe keep it at like 3k a month withdrawal.
    Bryan Mcafee
    Hit me up on skype at Brymcafee (McAllen TX)
    www.tradingaxis.com
  • ds.trading70ds.trading70 Posts: 59
    Need some advice. As most of us know brokers make money on our loss. Hence as a rule of thumb I should never trust Signals given by my broker,correct? However why are brokers assisting us to profit by developing the Algobit system on OptionBit platform then? I don't get this? This algobit system is developed by the broker n it can be trusted? OptionBit is a regulated trusted platform i know, so what gives?
  • 2nd question on brokers if anyone knows. Why can some platforms offer multiple accounts while some don't? Are those who are able to offer multiple accounts scam brokers? - I don't think so though. Any thoughts?
  • lotzofbotzlotzofbotz Posts: 1,552 ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2015
    You use anything designed and developed by a broker in any form or function you get what you deserve and you are likely retarded to even attempt to believe them as they lose when you win and vice versa. Their only function should be to provide a fair trading platform and if they can't do that then they should hit the road... If you promote stupid you get more stupid...
  • Simple rule of thumb then, just don't trust anything that is "created" by the broker itself. What about OptionBot 2.0? That is quite the rave recently touted to receive as high as 85% ITM. It's by OptionXE, not really sure if they are a broker firm themselves. Would that be a great indicator software to trade manually with to achieve high ITM%?
  • greenbankgreenbank Posts: 2
    lotzofbotz, I haven't started trading but have been researching signal companies, autotrading platforms and brokers for about 2-3 months now. You are the most active on all conversation strings. I assume you are active because you are at least reasonably successful and are enjoying it. Is it possible for you to share your trading experience (brokers, signals, platforms etc) and your stats. Appreciate it.
  • lotzofbotzlotzofbotz Posts: 1,552 ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2015
    I am a GRINDER I grind it out day in day out. Right now after this flash crash or whatever the market sucks for trading and I care more about not trading or using small leverage till it improves. I like Markets World for a broker and I even enjoying watching BSB/Legendary trade on Signal Push though I would never use their service as I don't like the owners or their philosophy. We will have a better service available in the near future so aptly named "Signal Rush" which too is an auto-trade copier platform. I will have multiple signal streams once the FRONT END is done that people can view. I also will have a live trade room where you can watch me trade with screen sharing as well so you can see how I setup the charts and my thinking process that goes along with the trades. My own stats currently on the model account for "Signal Rush" I am at 67.61% with 71 ITM 34 OTM with a 42.22% ROI since I started less then a month ago.
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