FX-PTSP on SignalPush

I've been watching the forums since I almost started with Mike's AT and Paul's OCAT but decided against it. Instead, I started up with SignalPush and subscribed to FX-PTSP but I have a couple questions. They use CTOption and they execute 30 second expiry trades which have a 65% payout. I started off with a subscription of 25 trades for $200/month. But doing my math, if I only trade a flat amount every time, I wouldn't make money if FX-PTSP was 72% ITM unless my flat amount was at least $45/trade (taking into account that I do have to pay $200/month for the signals). Is my math right? And would a percentage of my balance be a better option then? Right now, I started the account with $250 but he has already made 4/5 successful trades and brought me up to $290.

Comments

  • lotzofbotzlotzofbotz Posts: 1,552 ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2014
    To start with you money management is RETARDED! Anything over 5% on a trade is very risky. All these newbies pushing it with 10-20% leverage are going to at some point take a 50-100% hit. Why can't you guys not be so phucking greedy/stupid? Don't tell me any excuse about well this or that, because I heard all of them. Why would you not use say 2-3 providers 2-5% a trade and try to be better capitalized. All these no money gamblers looking for the fast easy ramp are just going to get smoked most of the time on one bad run...
  • r6racerr6racer Posts: 10
    edited December 2014
    To start off, I know money management is key and I don't feel comfortable doing 10% but for me to "practice good money management" AND be profitable, I would have to have $900 in the account. There's my excuse :P whether it's valid or not well I'm a noob lol.

    Are you saying subscribe to multiple providers and have multiple brokers?

    That was my idea once I get 100% return on my initial investment. *yes, I watched your tips and tricks video*

    I just want to learn and soak it all in. I would love to join a Skype room or webinars to learn so I can trade on my own. That's my goal.
  • BryanMacBryanMac Posts: 851 ✭✭✭
    Ask and you shall receive http://www.binaryoptions.net/chat/
    Bryan Mcafee
    Hit me up on skype at Brymcafee (McAllen TX)
    www.tradingaxis.com
  • r6racerr6racer Posts: 10
    Ah thank you BryanMac. Too bad I can't get to the chat room from my phone. But thank you nonetheless.
  • lotzofbotzlotzofbotz Posts: 1,552 ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2014
    LoL, ok fine you are a noobie and lack resources. So from there all I can say is I hope you get lucky! Lets say you are able with the larger trade size to survive and even double your account maybe even triple it! From there I would lower the leverage to 5% and grind it out. In time when you build the account up to a larger amount lets say 2-3k you can then start to add providers and yes diversification is the key to success in using a trade copying services and its the same with using bots too along with knowing when to use them. There is nothing wrong with being a noob everybody was one, even if some of us started out looking at all of the brokers signal providers marketers and saying "they are retarded or that is retarded and cursing them while laughing saying phuck them I am not falling for that sh*t.." Knowing your weaknesses you will have the ability to learn and over come them in time. That is what Socrates meant by "All I know is I know nothing.." the same goes with Sun Tzu stating one must know himself as well as his enemies.. So that is a benefit you have. From there its all stats I am glad you referred to the tips and tricks, that one will serve you well in the future I do believe...

    Also know that trading and holding above 60% ITM or higher takes a PRO not many can achieve this level of excellence, at least with Signal Push you can get a fully "TRANSPARENT SERVICE" which is the opposite of SCAMS like Mike and Paul's Auto Trading Douchebags. I also hope you take the time to watch the trades live and see the elements the traders uses so you can duplicate them yourself in the future...
  • OkaneOkane Posts: 1,279 admin
    Hey r6racer!
    First off, I have to agree with lotzofbotz with the horrible money management.
    If you have 200$ to pay each month for the service, why not save that money for a few months
    and deposit into your trading account instead to come up to.. say 1000 which is a much
    better safer deposit to start taking signals with. Second, why choose a signal service that
    does 30s trades with such a low payout to begin with, with such a low account balance?
    I am not saying the providers are bad or anything, just that maybe that is not suitable for YOU
    right NOW. And what about delays? Wouldn't that really mess up a 30sec expiry? There is basically no room
    for error in what you are doing. 30s expiry, low balance and low payouts...

    Furthermore: Diversification is good but be careful with that. What happens if signal provider A says 10 min call on
    Asset X and signal provider B says 10min put on the same Asset X? Well, you will start trading against yourself...
    Turning your wins into losses... Breakeven means losing in this business. Currency correlation shouldn't be neglected either.
    Also you will have to pay more fees if I am not wrong? Better save some money first, don't be greedy.
    I know you are new and you immediately want to make thousands. Give it some time, save up for a bigger account
    first and learn something first,then start using SP services and learn at the same time. Good Luck!
  • Okane said:

    Hey r6racer!
    First off, I have to agree with lotzofbotz with the horrible money management.
    If you have 200$ to pay each month for the service, why not save that money for a few months
    and deposit into your trading account instead to come up to.. say 1000 which is a much
    better safer deposit to start taking signals with. Second, why choose a signal service that
    does 30s trades with such a low payout to begin with, with such a low account balance?
    I am not saying the providers are bad or anything, just that maybe that is not suitable for YOU
    right NOW. And what about delays? Wouldn't that really mess up a 30sec expiry? There is basically no room
    for error in what you are doing. 30s expiry, low balance and low payouts...

    Furthermore: Diversification is good but be careful with that. What happens if signal provider A says 10 min call on
    Asset X and signal provider B says 10min put on the same Asset X? Well, you will start trading against yourself...
    Turning your wins into losses... Breakeven means losing in this business. Currency correlation shouldn't be neglected either.
    Also you will have to pay more fees if I am not wrong? Better save some money first, don't be greedy.
    I know you are new and you immediately want to make thousands. Give it some time, save up for a bigger account
    first and learn something first,then start using SP services and learn at the same time. Good Luck!

    This was great advice and to top it off it was tactful to boot unlike lots of
    insults. I do agree with most of what LOB says but we have long discussed my feeling about that R word ( I just HATE it ). Anyway, back to your topic.

    Firstly I think you are pretty bright because you are starting to ask the right questions. Trading,bets whatever you want to call it is a business and the one thing successful business people realize is that you have to have an understanding of liabilities and profits. Any signal service,room whatever is adding to your cost of doing business. There is theory that your home should not cost more than 30% of your take home pay and to improvise on that your Signal provider,education whatever should IMO not cost more than 20% of your capital. How do I get this number?

    $250
    20 bets total
    16 ITM 4OTM = 80% accuracy great
    5% wagered per bet ( lil wild for starters but cool )
    $340 winning bets - $50 lost on bets = $90 profits
    and that is with 80% accuracy and 70% return so as has been said $200 may not be the
    best fit for you. Payouts are under 70% and performance is under 80%
    while cost is more than 2x potential profit in this scenario but what if you only had
    $50 expenses ( 20% ) then it fits better for you. Forget what anyone has to say regardless of if they are tactful or not if the numbers do not work in the best of scenarios likely neither will the business and trading is a business so tweak it until it makes sense for you.

    Two years back in binary options and running a site and the one thing that I have noticed 1000 times is poor risk management.
    1,2,3 or 5% tops because if not then when you have a drawdown and you will have some ( 14 years and even I do ) it will kill your psychology. Good traders think about how much they can make great traders also think about how much they can lose first and figure a way to balance it all out.

    I do not recommend multi providers either because 1 can trade 50 bets a month be 80% ITM and 2 more can trade 150 bets and be
    65% ITM but unless they can all trade around the same number of bets and have close to the same accuracy every month it will not work and
    with 3x the cost it probably will not help you make money either. My advice Find a good provider with a proven track record and also education and a price that fits your start up capital and go with them. This is about numbers and making them work for you at the end of the day.

  • lotzofbotzlotzofbotz Posts: 1,552 ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2014
    Well lucky for me the market does not pay me according to how nice I am lol... What you are saying btw is RETARDED! WTF! Of course its a good idea of having as many accounts as you can spreading out your risk and building a positive average along with your account balance. GeeZuz Chist! If you can't see the benefits of this you obviously don't have much money or don't trade very well that you would be stymied with a single account. Ok so you have $100k and you want to have 10 providers each with 5% to 10% of you bank. Say 5 of these providers does well over time 100% to 500% returns or more depending on what %s you set for each individual account. Maybe 3 of them either do not do well or blow their sums and the other 2 lets say just average returns. Do you see how maybe offsetting results from one and spreading out risk can help you build a larger sum of money and going out even further will help when you hit max bet size for each individual broker, because in time you will hit that trade size wall as long as you have positive expectancy in your trading. Now I need you to use your mind here... Do you not understand how diversification offsets losses builds stability and expands capital? If not then yes "YOU ARE RETARDED!" Also another thing don't try to over complicated the idea of one provider taking one trade that offsets another trade as that will happen sure but the effects will be minuscule over time and the real focus should be the overall net % effects of the total sum right? If your 100k turns to $250k and you add say 50% more providers that provide another 100% return or get even better results you see where I am going with this in growing your capital with multiple accounts and brokers... If not again go back about 4 lines above to where it says "YOU ARE RETARDED!" Thanks for playing, have a nice day!
  • Well lucky for me the market does not pay me according to how nice I am lol... What you are saying btw is RETARDED! WTF! Of course its a good idea of having as many accounts as you can spreading out your risk and building a positive average along with your account balance. GeeZuz Chist! If you can't see the benefits of this you obviously don't have much money or don't trade very well that you would be stymied with a single account. Ok so you have $100k and you want to have 10 providers each with 5% to 10% of you bank. Say 5 of these providers does well over time 100% to 500% returns or more depending on what %s you set for each individual account. Maybe 3 of them either do not do well or blow their sums and the other 2 lets say just average returns. Do you see how maybe offsetting results from one and spreading out risk can help you build a larger sum of money and going out even further will help when you hit max bet size for each individual broker, because in time you will hit that trade size wall as long as you have positive expectancy in your trading. Now I need you to use your mind here... Do you not understand how diversification offsets losses builds stability and expands capital? If not then yes "YOU ARE RETARDED!" Also another thing don't try to over complicated the idea of one provider taking one trade that offsets another trade as that will happen sure but the effects will be minuscule over time and the real focus should be the overall net % effects of the total sum right? If your 100k turns to $250k and you add say 50% more providers that provide another 100% return or get even better results you see where I am going with this in growing your capital with multiple accounts and brokers... If not again go back about 4 lines above to where it says "YOU ARE RETARDED!" Thanks for playing, have a nice day!
    The following post will not contain the R word just fact vs Fiction or reality Vs THEORY

    I would like to first submit this quote from Warren Buffett:
    “Diversification is protection against ignorance, it makes little sense for those who know what they’re doing.”

    I am not insulting you LOB I am just sharing a quote from MR. Buffett but what does he know anyway. Statistically
    There were 650+ mutual funds completely wiped out since 2005 in the USA alone but I guess if guys diversified into 700
    They are OK. We are talking about bets here not even trades so take some of all that money you are making and put it to
    good use and write yourself a reality check. Offshore bins are way more risky than what any of those mutual funds were trading and
    how did it work for them or are you to slow to get my point. BTW I am fine with intelligent conversation and fine with you
    conducting yourself however you see fit even insulting me as long as you are fine with the concept of reciprocity.

    Nothing I mentioned was addressed at all. You just began to weave a magical theoretical tale of great fortune by picking up to five currently good providers.

    Correlation: Regardless of if they trade the same pairs same time or not this will blur your diversification. If you do not see that then you are DIM

    Payouts will not be equal among all parties: So even high ITM with 7x% will not go as far to balance lower ITM with 6x% payouts

    Frequency of bets will not match: shorter term punters will bet more often because they are looking at smaller pockets of data
    and spotting more opportunities ( because there are more candles to produce said opportunities )

    Different platforms different Risk management: Each one of them applies different methods to protect their interests. Are all the imaginary people in " lots of theory " world comparably skilled at dealing with these issues.

    Signals and psychology: More bets = more drawdown and more people to trust with your money over the same FIXED amount of time.
    This is probably the largest REAL obstacle the theory faces between actually working in reality. Unless you have 100K of segregated recreational
    funds at a point the draw down + reality of human psychology shoots down your plane to fantasy island.

    So Alicia just in case you are still " Clueless " as to what I am getting at here at the end of the day by spreading your money over even more providers you have just as much or even more chance of not getting a dime out of one or more of the brokers or in lots of theory world will every single one of them all payout. This just scratches the surface on the many variables you ignored while you were so busy flinging insults.
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