Signal Push & Signal Rush

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  • lotzofbotzlotzofbotz Posts: 1,552 ✭✭✭✭
    I feel for you if you are a patent lawyer or any kind of lawyer for that matter lol. It is nice to know that "Signal>Push's" signal providers are not tied to their platform under the T&Cs and free to provide signals else where if they so desired as Ryan has stated.
  • SignalPushcomSignalPushcom Posts: 132
    edited July 2015

    Hi everyone, I am sorry that my post has resulted in somewhat of a heated debate. If I can offer some opinion as I am a patent lawyer by training.

    Based on everything I have read, a patent pending only applies to its underlying jurisdictions, whether this is a design or process patent. Signal Push' patent has only been filed and not granted and is only for the U.S jurisdiction and in a completely online world. Unless Signal Push has patent coverage for its replication technology for all jurisdictions (covered by the Madrid protocol), unfortunately, they cannot do anything legally if their competitor who uses the exact technology chooses to locate their servers in jurisdictions where Signal Push does not have coverage. They can send C&D notices but it will fall on deaf ears as there is very little extradition allowances in such disputes.

    From my time in patent law, global coverage for a software process patent can take 6 years and cost upward of $750,000. I don't think I am going out on a limb if I say that Signal Push does not have that type of funds to dedicate to global patenting. If they do, Kudos, but having checked the patent registry at the USPTO, I don't see this.

    As for your point Ryan on a signal provider coming under the guise to steal your provider tech, I totally agree you should pursue them to the extent of the law and you every right to protect yourself, one would be silly not to. But is it right that if I am trying to give signals on Signal Push as a signal provider, I am getting access to your patented technology in a manner that I can reverse engineer it? Surely your system is not designed in such a ridiculous manner? All I need to do is select the pair and go call, put, set expiry blah blah, maybe connect via API but why are you giving me access to your patented technology. I just don't get this...can you elaborate?

    Again I will say, if indeed you are exposing yourself to a signal provider technologically and they then go on to create a competitor product in breach of your T&C, then if they are in your jurisdiction, you can lay claim, if they are not, you will not be able to benefit from injunctive relief.

    I read your earlier response to me and thanks for that, it clarifies a lot. I still don't see how your lock-in protects the signal provider. Business continuity afforded by the 60 day notice makes total sense however, kudos!

    You may be a "patent lawyer by training" but we have actual patent lawyers and lawyers who specialize in business agreements and we have paid well into the 6 figures for their advice and direction, and will continue to do so. We have also pursued entities outside of the US, with success. It doesn't matter to us if the business is located abroad, we will spend anything it takes (even if it's 750k) to pursue those who steal our technology. As you stated, nothing shows yet in the USPTO as our applications are still pending (which can take years). The legal we've pursued so far has nothing to do with the patents but simple contract law. Of course, if you've been in law long enough you know that nothing is ever black and white. Every lawyer has their own opinion and in the end it will be up to the judge what happens and there can always be appeals.

    It's pretty simple. If you want to run a successful business that people look up to, don't steal. Create your own technology, create innovative ideas. That's the only thing that will benefit the technology. Would I (or anyone I know) use technology they know was stolen from someone else? I highly doubt it. It'd be easy enough, in the unlikely and unfortunate event that any lawsuit fails, to let the entire industry know about what was stolen and by who.

    "But is it right that if I am trying to give signals on Signal Push as a signal provider, I am getting access to your patented technology in a manner that I can reverse engineer it? Surely your system is not designed in such a ridiculous manner? All I need to do is select the pair and go call, put, set expiry blah blah, maybe connect via API but why are you giving me access to your patented technology. I just don't get this...can you elaborate?" - The only piece that you would have access to that the public does not is our browser plugin that lets you trade directly on the binary platform like you would trading by yourself. No MT4, no separate interface, nothing. No one else has anything like it.

    "Again I will say, if indeed you are exposing yourself to a signal provider technologically and they then go on to create a competitor product in breach of your T&C, then if they are in your jurisdiction, you can lay claim, if they are not, you will not be able to benefit from injunctive relief. " - Our lawyers feel differently and thus we've pursued globally and have the funds to do so. We do everything we can to protect our technology but nothing is ever completely protected. Especially when you're talking about web technologies like javascript. If Chinese hackers can get into the US government, I think they can get through our obfuscated code.

    I understand everyone may not agree with our practices to protect our technology but it's our right as a business and the owner of the technology to do just that, protect it. This industry (binary) is one of the most ruthless and disgusting industries out there. There are so many thieves and shady people that if you're going to run a business that is successful, you have to play it as safe as possible. Otherwise you're quick to get ripped off and you won't last long. We've been in this business since the beginning and seem many new to running a business try and start a service, only to get ripped off by someone with more resources/money and fade away.

    If a provider wants to sign up with us and has an issue with any of the terms of our agreement, we are more than happy to listen to their feedback and will be open to negotiating different terms of the agreement if they make mutual sense to do so.
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  • SignalPushcomSignalPushcom Posts: 132
    edited July 2015

    I feel for you if you are a patent lawyer or any kind of lawyer for that matter lol. It is nice to know that "Signal>Push's" signal providers are not tied to their platform under the T&Cs and free to provide signals else where if they so desired as Ryan has stated.

    Of course they are! But if we see their service on SignalPush suffering and our clients being harmed by them operating multiple places, we will terminate their agreement with us. If they are really more happy somewhere else, we'd much rather them focus on those clients than have our clients suffer. In the end, we're in this for the benefit of the community and for our clients to make money and be happy. There are too many scams out there, we've worked hard to provide a legit, transparent business. It's actually a shock that we're getting so much flack for trying to protect our business. You should see how many lawsuits are out there for the giants like Apple and Microsoft. It's just part of doing business. If our providers aren't happy, they can speak up to us directly and let us know what they'd like to see changed. We listen to feedback very much from clients and providers and are extremely quick to turn around requested changes.
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  • lotzofbotzlotzofbotz Posts: 1,552 ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2015
    Awww you poor baby, I feel so bad for you. I can't imagine what its like to take flack from both friend and foe alike for any of my posts, because gee I am such a nice guy as you can tell by the amazing support of people like you towards me >8-/ ROLLS EYES... *Shrug can't figure that one out.. LoL if Ryan had his choice he would have sold me to an African Pygmy sex slave operation with free shipping 50% off 2 for 1 buy 1 get me free if you sign up to his broker limited spots available time offer or even if you spend more then 50 cents at Mcdonalds or just posted a nice comment about Signal>Push on a forum too.

    *Hands U a Tissue...
  • SignalPushcomSignalPushcom Posts: 132

    Awww you poor baby, I feel so bad for you. I can't imagine what its like to take flack from both friend and foe alike for any of my posts, because gee I am such a nice guy as you can tell by the amazing support of people like you towards me >8-/ ROLLS EYES... *Shrug can't figure that one out.. LoL if Ryan had his choice he would have sold me to an African Pygmy sex slave operation with free shipping 50% off 2 for 1 buy 1 get me free if you sign up to his broker limited spots available time offer or even if you spend more then 50 cents at Mcdonalds or just posted a nice comment about Signal>Push on a forum too.

    *Hands U a Tissue...

    Typical Lotz response.
    I wish you and your business partners the best of luck.
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  • lotzofbotzlotzofbotz Posts: 1,552 ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2015
    Sorry, lol my sense of humor is lost on some no doubt. Then again I often laugh at my own jokes so works for me.

    A Hooker is in an alley crying her eyes out... I walk up to her and ask whats wrong? She mumbles "I can mook any mamy gaven bow jrrls fa sm rison." "I am sorry I did not quite get that?" "I can mook any mamy gaven bow jrrls fa sm rison!!!" She says louder... "Nope can't understand what you are saying." She then takes the razor blade out of her mouth and goes at the top of her lungs "I CAN'T MAKE ANY MONEY GIVING BLOW JOBS FOR SOME REASON!!!"
  • Blue Sky BinaryBlue Sky Binary Posts: 157 ✭✭
    Hi traders,

    As one of many signal providers in this space, we agree about the importance of protecting I.P. Always a bit tricky when it comes to protecting algorithms. It will be interesting to see how this space evolves as more formal regulation from the big financial centers sets in.

    Good luck to everyone :smile:
    thanks,
    Josh
    Blue Sky Binary - Research, Education & Technology. Signal Hive - The No.1 Binary Signals Marketplace.

  • gabmangabman Posts: 56
    is signal rush ready? also lotz pls check if this stock company is legit tradewithfox.com, i think they are, but would want your 2 cents
  • lotzofbotzlotzofbotz Posts: 1,552 ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2015
    Looks pretty straight forward on the surface but honestly I would only be going by my first glance because of the associations they have, could be worthwhile imo but that area is of little interest to me.

    Signal Rush is being kicked into higher gear more parts have come together its looking good being ramped up but this is up to the developers so stay tuned!

    What the phuck is that on you doing "JAS" signals noted in the video below? I hope you are not running a service with that guys signals without his authorization, would never want to see anybody steal signals from another group Ryan, that would be extremely unethical behavior. Is JAS aware his signals are automated through "Signal>Push" and being used by your clients using his signals?

    Very cute gay couple by the way =-))

  • SignalPushcomSignalPushcom Posts: 132
    Not running any service with their signals. LO is using our SigConnect copier to autotrade JAS. A valid JAS subscription is necessary, and our copier simply reads the signals from the users JAS account and autotrades them.
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  • lotzofbotzlotzofbotz Posts: 1,552 ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2015
    Binary Broke Back Mountain... Sorry but they could so do the sequel to that movie. Man that is really a grey area there imo. I suppose as long as each client has a valid sub to their service they could use them as they see fit. At least they have a good understanding of the math involved in trading and I like their after school special way of presenting it.
  • gabmangabman Posts: 56
    hey lotzofbotz....saw my comment?
  • SignalPushcomSignalPushcom Posts: 132

    Binary Broke Back Mountain... Sorry but they could so do the sequel to that movie. Man that is really a grey area there imo. I suppose as long as each client has a valid sub to their service they could use them as they see fit. At least they have a good understanding of the math involved in trading and I like their after school special way of presenting it.

    Not really a grey area at all. User has a valid subscription and we're simply providing an interoperability between two products.
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  • lotzofbotzlotzofbotz Posts: 1,552 ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2015
    I guess you missed taking any classes on ethics in college. Yes it is a grey area and here is why. If you start PUBLICLY offering connection to competitors signal providers/services even if you are paying for such and do not get authorization of that service to do so you are violating their brand period. They might have their own tech coming out for signals your groups might be offering services that detract from their business such as affiliation to brokers that maybe Jas would benefit from but now that group does so instead. So yes Ryan it is a very GREY area. I understand you can't police private groups but public ones doing this? Imagine AT&T decides they want to use a Verizon service and market that to the public under the guise of using their technology, maybe it even benefits all users but what if in fact they are really stealing customers and have hidden backend benefits that detract from Verizon. If such was done there then AT&T would be sued for that. Hey if JAS does not mind shrug but to me its unethical to use other peoples services without their authorization to publicly promote such services is doubly so.
  • lotzofbotzlotzofbotz Posts: 1,552 ✭✭✭✭
    Yes Gabman I answered you above. Here let me repeat it more clearly.

    Tradewithfox looks pretty straight forward on the surface but honestly I would only be going by my first glance because of the associations they have, could be worthwhile imo but that area is of little interest to me. Its an advisory service of an TV mouth for options right? Advisory services like that usually are of minor use but hey again note my knowledge and interest in it is near 0, so I would find a better source of info on it. Imo though its a legitimate offering.
  • SignalPushcomSignalPushcom Posts: 132

    I guess you missed taking any classes on ethics in college. Yes it is a grey area and here is why. If you start PUBLICLY offering connection to competitors signal providers/services even if you are paying for such and do not get authorization of that service to do so you are violating their brand period. They might have their own tech coming out for signals your groups might be offering services that detract from their business such as affiliation to brokers that maybe Jas would benefit from but now that group does so instead. So yes Ryan it is a very GREY area. I understand you can't police private groups but public ones doing this? Imagine AT&T decides they want to use a Verizon service and market that to the public under the guise of using their technology, maybe it even benefits all users but what if in fact they are really stealing customers and have hidden backend benefits that detract from Verizon. If such was done there then AT&T would be sued for that. Hey if JAS does not mind shrug but to me its unethical to use other peoples services without their authorization to publicly promote such services is doubly so.

    No, sorry, it isn't a grey area and it isn't an ethical issue either. We created the SigConnect copier to provide interoperability between mutual clients. The copier is free, it simply interfaces with our API.

    We aren't stealing customers and in fact, we have brought clients to JAS because they can now autotrade. JAS is also aware of our software and they are in discussions internally about using it as their official AT.

    You're AT&T example also doesn't compare. Thanks for your opinion though. I love when we get attacked for providing something that helps people. I really adore this industry.

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  • gabmangabman Posts: 56
    ok, thanks, let me know when signal rush is ready.
  • ds.trading70ds.trading70 Posts: 59
    Actually, when will SignalRush be ready? anybody know of any ETA?
  • lotzofbotzlotzofbotz Posts: 1,552 ✭✭✭✭
    Its working just need a FRONT END for stats and a beta section for signal providers...
  • ds.trading70ds.trading70 Posts: 59
    Wow, that sounds like heaven. Go lotz, ready in 60 days time? lol..
  • soriginalsoriginal Posts: 3
    Lotz if there's any grunt work you need help with shoot me an email
  • lotzofbotzlotzofbotz Posts: 1,552 ✭✭✭✭
    Thanks just waiting for the Signal Rush Front End. Once that is up we can start herding cats. How is trading going for you? Are you progressing with the levels and grinding it out?
  • taltal Posts: 3
    Lotz can you keep use posted and do you have to be signed up with Signal Rush
  • lotzofbotzlotzofbotz Posts: 1,552 ✭✭✭✭
    I will keep you posted, right now the markets suck so in vacation mode till after labor day. We are working on the FRONT END once that is done we are good to go. The software works I can run signals anytime I like now. Once the front end is up you can see the stats of how I trade with multiple methods all 100% transparently which is very important.
  • Would very much like to see you revolutionize the way of Auto trading for the next Era :wink:
  • lotzofbotzlotzofbotz Posts: 1,552 ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2015
    We don't get into the business of my signal providers no matter what they do as long as they did not steal the underlying software they can do whatever they like. We are not a binary options Nazi party lol... Ryan seems to have a different point of view then again he is like a corporate shill from AT&T so you will never get a clear answer and if he dislikes what you state he will start crying... When the FRONT END is done I want to offer a far more competitive friendly product that what is currently available to Signal Providers and Subscribers alike. Since I have a say and I am just a trader well you get the idea ;)
  • SignalPushcomSignalPushcom Posts: 132
    Observer said:

    But what I don't understand is and please do help me here, when Signal Rush is out, will signal providers on Signal Push need to decide between one or the other? Or are they allowed to give signals on both platforms?

    Sure they can, as long as they aren't stealing anything from us or sharing details only available to our providers. Also, if we notice their service performance decline, and their SignalPush clients are negatively affected, we will suggest they pick one or the other. Managing one signal service is hard enough, we've seen plenty of providers start to fail when they try and juggle too many things.
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  • SignalPush is a great company with good service and high integrity, this i would like to give them credit for, but i guess it doesn't hurt to have a bit of friendly competition,as long it serves to improve and not hurt the overall performance of the Auto Trading industry - which is still pretty small as of now.
  • lotzofbotzlotzofbotz Posts: 1,552 ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2015
    Competition is good unless its for scamware lol... Plenty of comp there! OMG *smacks self in head
  • Although lotz, I m intrigued to know,which broker/brokers will you be allying with to push yr signals.
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